So, yesterday we go out to eat with some friends after church. We decide to take the kids with us, since they’re kind of our responsibility and we have to feed them and all. Big mistake. Abby Kate has started doing this thing where she arches her back and throws her head back and screams bloody murder when we try to put her in the highchair. She throws her food, refusing to eat, even though she’s hungry. I pick her up, she scratches my neck (thus the hickey-sized scar on the right side of my neck). Of course, when this happens, we get stares and looks from everyone in the restaurant. Stares that say, “Stupid man, why can’t you control your kids?” (By the way, those stares are very helpful and go a long way towards rectifiying the situation. If you’re prone to those kinds of looks, KEEP IT UP!) To top it all off, she sticks her hand in the mac and cheese (ordinarily her favorite food), which burned her, leading to a meltdown of nuclear proportions, which in turn led to even more glares from every couple in the restaurant over the age of 50. Apparently raising children was much easier back in the Stone Age.
My children are approaching their 2nd birthday, and I know we’ll continue to fight through some of this stuff for the next few years. But do any of you older heads have any advice / tips / medication suggestions (kidding) that would be helpful to Sunny and me as we train our kids? I have yet to get heavily involved in the spanking / non-spanking debate, but at times I wonder. I’m not prone to asking for advice, but my kids are too important to me. Anybody out there have any helpful tips?
already & not yet 
I’ll admit…i’m king of those giving the stares to crying kids. Sometimes I don’t even realize it, but Kristen kicks me under the table and tells me to stop…and I don’t even know what it is I’m doing wrong.
Run, don’t walk, and pick up Grace-Based Parenting. It is the best parenting book I have read.It spells out the three things kids need from us:Security (Love)Significance (Purpose)Strength (Hope)In the context of a grace-based family we bless our kids with tremendous freedom:Freedom to be differentFreedom to be vulnerableFreedom to be candidFreedom to make mistakesWhat really resonated with me is how often I have elevated non-essential matters to moral issues with my kids. That is not how God treats us as children. I have parented too often from the perspective of how others view me. Those fools in restaurants will always stare. But if your kids aren’t sinning, then let them be themselves.
The graying, wizened patriarch stirs from his slumber…When it comes to razen’ chilluns, may I quote the late, great philosopher and small-town crimefighter Barney Fife:””Nip it in the bud. You go read any book you want on child discipline and you’ll find every one of them is in favor of bud-nipping.”Seriously, I know much less about raising children than I did before I had any. Restaurant tantrums are a test from God.
I understand what you’re saying about parenting from the perspective of how others view you. But get really practical with me here. You’re telling me that in a situation like I described, the best advice is to just let your child “act out” his or her feelings, even when it means throwing a tantrum? This book advocates only disciplining when moral issues are involved? And even then, do you spank? Take a non-violent approach? What does Tracy think about this?I’m eager for ideas (and I’ll definitely pick up a copy of the book on your recommendation). But I think back to how I was raised. My parents were kind, loving people and my sister would say that by the time I came along, they’d softened their displinary stances quite a bit. But I still remember being punished severely on occasions that warranted it. And I believe such punishment was a deterrent to future behavior problems. Sunny and I go back and forth on this issue, as if you couldn’t tell.
Spanking won’t help and is probably inappropriate in this situation. Don’t think it’s a discipline issue either. The only time that I have spanked our children (the last one hasn’t experienced yet) is when they do something dangerous, like poke things into electrical outlet, or directly disobey. I’ve only had to do it a couple of times with each child. BTW, started when they were age 2.Don’t have an answer for the high chair thing, but the screaming is usually being done because they want attention, they are afraid, they are tired, they are testing, or they want something else. Figuring that out is the trick. The ‘time-out’ sessions sometimes work for us.Agree with Scott about elevating non-essential matters to moral issues. You will have to pick your battles as they grow up. Some are not worth fighting. I have no problem with the occasional outbursts in restaurants – it’s normal and expected. However, think at some point you cross a threshold where you can be inconsiderate of others and not courteous. We’ve packed up our kids and left on those rare occasions. Disagree with the notion that you don’t act until they are ‘sinning’ – you’ve waited to long at that point and that will become a larger issue as they get older.
I’m glad that Ernest, er, I mean Ed chimed in since he is still very much “in the game.” ;-)We tried to reserve spanking for the “big stuff” but weren’t always successful in drawing the line there–you have to be careful that it doesn’t turn into an outlet for your own frustration. I grew to dislike it more and more as we went along but still believe it is necessary in certain “shock and awe” situations.Agree with Ed that the restaurant scene can sometimes only be handled by rapid extrication and evacuation–trying to discipline the child to make a statement to rubberneckers is not necessary and may draw unwanted attention, i.e. police or family services. The whole restaurant thing usually settles down when they’re a little older, until then just have everyone get takeout and take turns meeting at each other’s houses. We did that a lot and the kids can relax in familar and comfortable territory.
I have been a proponent of spanking and still feel that it is a viable option. We spank, and have since our kids reached the age of 2, like Ed.Grace-based Parenting does not take a soft stance on discipline. Instead, it encourages to look at the core issues of the behavior. And to deal appropriately when that behavior is wrong. You do not tolerate behavior that would be disrespectful of others. That could be removing the child from the scene for a moment, allowing them time to calm down and providing them the assurance and security they need. Or leave the restaurant.I did not mean to convey to only act when the behavior has progressed to full blown sin. Of course, you intervene before then. I do a woefully poor job of recapping things I have read. Pick it up and I’d love to discuss it with you further.
I appreciate you guys weighing in with your thoughts. Obviously I use the example from yesterday as a way of expressing my greater concern. It’s not so much that she acted out in the restaurant; it’s that she (and Joshua) are entering this period that I’ve worried about since they were born. Thus, I solicit advice. There’s nothing that breaks my heart more than to see my kids crying when I know I’m the one causing their tears. But we also face the situation (again, with Abby Kate) where she deliberately disobeys and we have to respond. With Joshua, a stern warning is usually enough to correct him. With AK, she just giggles and goes right ahead. We remove her from the situation, she goes right back to it. We lightly pop her hand, she giggles. We pop it a little harder, she laughs even more. It becomes a game. So no luck there. I’ve already told Sunny about the book. Will order a copy online today.Where are all my female readers? Any ladies out there?I should change my blog to White Dads Forum.
At least some are still commenting on your blog. Mine has slowed to a trickle.But I’m not bitter.
I beef up my comments section by making 3 or 4 comments per post. Makes me feel good. By the way, I noticed your Dad has a link to my page. We should get him over here. I’d love to have him weigh in on this issue. And I’d like to get Tracy’s feedback, too.
Yeah, he was in town this past weekend and had me set up his links. He wanted the family and you. You should feel proud.You know you could engage me in a discussion on my blog and help to inflate my ego as well. I can’t just keep leaving comments to myself.How is that for pandering? I seek affirmation in strange places.
I’m here for you, man. What are twin brothers for?
Give me your insight into the question I ask on my most recent entry.
I am a female, and I would make some life-altering statement right here that would blow every previous statement out of the water and answer all of life’s parenting questions… but I’m not a parent. Therefore..I got nothing. However, I did make your comment # go up! So that’s a good thing!!By the way, one day I plan on being a parent. You and Sunny take notes for me, please. And I love you both. I know God is with you two as you make these important decisions on discipline.
Scott, I responded to your “speaking the truth in love” question. Check it out.Jenna, thanks for stopping by and weighing in. Apparently, you’re my sole female reader. Yay, you! And the prayers are much appreciated. Pray for Sunny especially this week, as she’s raising my children without me this week.
Jason said: “I should change my blog to White Dads Forum.”Ok, in the interest of diversity, I asked Eyegal about this one. I think she has some special insight into this since she too was once a restaurant drama queen and in fact still arches her back and tries to scratch my neck when she gets really POed at me. She said she has two words for you: Take Out.I think she’s referring to food and not Abby Kate…I think.
“I think she’s referring to food and not Abby Kate…I think.”Great line. Maybe she’s referring to both! Thanks, Mike.
Can you hit 20 comments on this post?
I can if I keep replying to everyone individually.You wanna put me over the top?
What was this post about again?
Scott,Figured that is what you meant, but thought I would toss the thought on the table anyway.I don’t have an answer about AK, but one other thought. From the children’s perspective (and we learned the hard way), bad attention is better than no attention. Seems like that is why we resorted to timeout sessions.
Hey, Jason!Okay, so I’m not old, but I do have something that might help. Have you ever heard of Michael Pearl? He’s the child-training authority among home-school circles (and many churches), and I challenge you to find better behaved children than home-schooled ones. Excepting me. ::wink::Anyway, he wrote a book a while back called “To Train Up a Child”. My mother has at least a dozen copies she keeps handy to give out to young parents. Since the publication of this book, he and his family write a newletter with stories, advice, and encouragement on everything from child-rearing to marriage to issues in Christianity today. The website is http://www.nogreaterjoy.org if you want to check it out.
Cool. Thanks for the tip…I’ll check it out.
Hi Jason,I was checking out pictures from Winterfest and happened upon your blog. I can sooo relate to what you are experiencing with Abby Kate. My Olivia is almost 16 months old and definitely has a will (and a strong one at that) of her own. Fortunately, I have not had the restuarant meltdown experience yet. But Brian had a very pleasant one in Parisian in Madison Square Mall. The only thing that appeased Olivia in that situation was to be on the escalator going up (not down). So, she was screaming and ranting the rest of the time. Needless to say, Brian got MANY of those “looks”.We talked to our doctor about this at Olivia’s 15 month appointment. She suggested consistent use of time out to get the message accross. Does Abby Kate respond to time outs? Olivia seems to be doing well with it so far. The more consistently I use it, the more she knows what it is. All I have to do is say “Do you want to go in time out?” and many times she will change her behavior. When she goes to time out, she goes in a chair in a different room from me for one minute. My ped. even suggested putting a timer in there so that Olivia would come to realize that I am releasing her from time out because of the timer and not because of her screams or fussing. Anyway, what I am getting at is that the Dr. said that you can effectively use time outs anywhere. For the restuarant situation, you could take her out to her car seat for the time out. Strap her in and then stand right outside of the car. You may have already been down this road and perhaps it is not effective with Abby Kate. I have not been faced with a situation where I had to strap Olivia in her car seat yet. But I have definitely seen a difference at home since I started using the time out discipline more consistently. And I am hoping that the first time I have to use it out in public will significantly reduce the number of incidences we will have in future. Anyway, I just thought I’d offer up my 2 cents. I am in the same boat as you though, so in 6 months to a year, my advice may be just like the others (take out). In HIMMichele Gay
MIchele,Thanks so much for weighing in. I’ve been hoping for a mom’s perspective on this issue. We’ve had middling success with the time out approach…the best thing we’ve found is to remove Abby Kate from the room / situation for a while and let her calm down. The difficulty is when she and her brother are going at each other. But such is life with twins.I appreciate you chiming in with your response. Feel free to stop by any time.